Subject: Fox News most trusted
Date: Thu Jan 17 14:09:37 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:The reason I ask is Cheney seems to grant interviews only to FOXNEWS. Why is this? Frontline asked for an interview, it would have been nice to hear directly from our VP in a documentary about our VP, why didn't he want to talk to Frontline for their show titled "Cheney's Law?"
Date: Thu Jan 17 14:17:02 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:Could it be that FOXNEWS is most trusted because it doesn't ask the hard questions, people are content with not knowing, and if they don't know, no knowlege equals no fault, no consequence? FOXNEWS is actually the happy channel, the teletubbie of all networks? The sun goes up, the sun goes down, where Po is not conclusively gay, just carries a purse?
Date: Thu Jan 17 14:24:56 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:correction: I looked up FOXNEWS's story on the Teletubbies. I mistakenly suggested Po was gay, according to FOXNEWS, Tinky Winky is the one that carries the purse. My apologies.
Date: Thu Jan 17 17:03:46 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:I just read Dan Fromkin's blog from the Washington Post. He does the column "WhiteHouse Watch." He was saying that a lot of the media complains about Bush and Cheney's "stonewalling" the white house press corp. Journalists today are satisfied with writing "refuse to answer, or stonewalling" instead of asking a hard question and if the Whitehouse refuses to answer, to follow up with "that's not my question" then asking it again, then if the question is still refused a direct answer, to ask "don't you think the American people deserve a straight answer..." Instead the journalists just write that the whitehouse refused to answer, thinking that's good enough. Well that's not good enough. Do you remember when Jeff Gannon, the fake reporter for Talon News was planted in the whitehouse press corp to ask Bush soft questions? I put in google "Jeff Gannon FOXNEWS" and you know what I got, FOXNEWS didn't write one article about the imposter press plant poised to ask Bush easy questions. No surprise. Try it yourselves.
Date: Thu Jan 17 18:36:15 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:I decided to do a little research on the "most trusted news" PBS was in 2004, but also linked with "public affairs programs" CNN and BBC are the most trusted news on a global scale, but Americans, they like their FOGX news.
Date: Thu Jan 17 21:02:39 2008
User: julia
Message:I'm guessing she's not getting the message that we're not putting up with her crap anymore?
Snow, I'm not bothering. It's an utter waste of effort. I mean, how do you respond to.....
oh look a thought
post a rant
there goes another thought
post a rant
nobody's posting
post a rant
still nobody posting (geez it's been 10 minutes!!!!)
insult someone AND post a rant
.tap
I can't believe nobody is posting
oh wait, I had a thought
post a rant
still nobody to fight with
search internet for something to rant about
post a rant
damn, still no response!
challenge someone to make a post that I can disqualify from replying to
rant on the above post
omg there goes another thought
rant, disparage someone, and call one of the previous posters a name
post something totally outrageous in an attempt to get someone to post
tell everyone how smart I am while confusing gist with jest
post again just to annoy someone
make a very profound post (in my opinion, the only one that matters)
insult everyone who disagrees with me, and leave for the day
Like I said, a total waste of effort. Oh, and don't tell her I not only saw her obsession of the week, I monetarily support the ones that aired it.
Date: Fri Jan 18 11:12:45 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:New record, unless somebody can prove me in error:
Seven!
Date: Fri Jan 18 11:40:34 2008
User: +Dandy+
Message:RE:
Date: Jan 16 23:16
User: AreWeThereYet
Message:
Did I use "new-con". No, I used "neo-com".
You still don't have it right, it's neo-coN !
Date: Fri Jan 18 11:47:00 2008
User: SwingTime
Message:Okay, Snowguy, what's the record -- seven hours since the last rant by birdhaus? Perhaps it is only seven minutes? Btw, that last post by julia was way too funny. And so true!
Date: Fri Jan 18 11:54:48 2008
User: TNmountainman
Message:+Dandy+ -- in case you missed it, this is what Songcutter posted Jan 10 (16:10), in the "Left Wing Creed" thread:
"We're even playing nice with Libya and most other Middle East countries (that you NeoComms predicted would all rise up against us if we went to war in Iraq...oops, you're wrong again.) No, the ones who hate us so much are you NeoComms (my new name for you lefties...Since you insist on labeling anyone to the right of Karl Marx a "Neocon," I think a neo-communist monicker fits you nicely."
-- This is what AreWeThereYet was referring to. Hope that clears up any confusion.....
{Not that I'm defending that terminology as accurate, of course, but I *do* believe in clearing up misunderstandings, if possible.)
Date: Fri Jan 18 11:56:54 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:here I am, ready to start another day of research and revealing what I've learned. I feel like I'm spoon feeding you all information as you can't seem to comment on topic/content and can't seem to get past the messenger of information and digest it all. I will persist until I am sure you all know as much as me. So buckle up, you're in for a ride. and ps. my posts are bite sized, it is easier for you all to read in bite sized bits. I abhor long posts and these short, direct, to the point posts are harder to Not read. ahhh yes, it's a strategy.
Date: Fri Jan 18 12:04:28 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:Today on NPR: there is a new documentary by the maker of "Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room" called "Taxi". It will be a nominee for best documentary. It is on America's acceptance of torture under the hand of our best, yes, you guessed it, DICK CHENEY. Anyway I'm sure it will be a crowd pleaser, when you watch it, you will say to yourselves: "birdhaus has been saying that all along.." and you will actually find you will have a leg up on all your other uninformed Bush supporters. You will actually know what I feel like when I'm talking to you. TN, excluded.
Date: Fri Jan 18 12:08:02 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:The reason it's called "Taxi" is that it's based on the real life story of a taxi driver that was detained by the Americans and tortured till he died. I'm so proud to be an American, aren't you julia? oh, and I didn't read your post, seemed to be another summary of what I just said. sorry, was that meant to be homework?
Date: Fri Jan 18 12:12:08 2008
User: +Dandy+
Message:RE:
Date: Jan 18 11:54
User: TNmountainman
Message:
+Dandy+ -- in case you missed it, this is what Songcutter posted Jan 10 (16:10), in the "Left Wing Creed" thread:
Thanks for clearing that up! (As far as the "LWC" is clear) So I guess a neocon is the opposite of a neocom.
I just don't see this (discussion) going anywhere actually. There are enough neocons around to elect bush and cheney again, so until Jan. 20, 2009 we are all screwed. I just hope we make it that long at least with the constitution still intact!
Date: Fri Jan 18 12:13:23 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:if you're counting, this is post 4, snowguy. So proud of your comments on topic, you can count attaboy! perhaps I can find a way to reach you through the wonders of addition. I'll work on it.
Date: Fri Jan 18 12:20:06 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:post #5 (oh sorry snowguy, did you want to say that?)
Dandy, you are also excluded from the lessons. you have proven yourself informed, and you can scrutinize information given.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:05:17 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:All I wrote was that seven was a new record.
And, bird? There's nothing you could teach me. Let me see: You *refuse* to read my posts but answer some of them anyway. And you sometimes refuse to read julia's posts too:
>> "oh, and I didn't read your post, seemed to be another summary of what I just said. sorry, was that meant to be homework?"<<
You selectively decide what to read and not read. You go to (or at least favor) sources that are more likely to mirror your own views. To me, that signifies a close-minded arguer, not an open-minded debater.
Not the kind of person who can give me lessons.
By the way, I stated way up there that this isn't my thread. I only come in when "someone" brings me in, and I answer that issue; then I duck back out.
While you "give lessons" I'll go sit in study hall and read. BTW:
>>"I will persist until I am sure you all know as much as me. So buckle up, you're in for a ride. and ps. my posts are bite sized, it is easier for you all to read in bite sized bits. I abhor long posts and these short, direct, to the point posts are harder to Not read. ahhh yes, it's a strategy."<< (Or, is it more indicative of a short attention span and difficulty in building comprehensive points?)
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:29:15 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:I skimmed the first couple words of each of your paragraphs,snowguy. It wasn't on topic so I'll ignore it.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:31:28 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:and I'll asume that each topic sentence of each of your paragraphs was indicative of the content of the paragraph, that's just good basic writing. Should I assume otherwise?
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:34:12 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Ignore away, bird. But remember. The minimal respect you give to others is being mirrored in the level of respect people have for you.
You make it clear that you belive some others are less than you.
I hope you realize that's impossible.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:35:35 2008
User: CrappyCrappyCrappy
Message:Snowguy said, "And, bird? There's nothing you could teach me."
While I see the validity of some of Snowguy's criticisms, this one smacks of broad overgeneralization.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:36:17 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:again the topic is American Media. American Media. I'll accept Global Media, Media topics, Americans in general.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:39:30 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:as a sideline, if anyone watches the tv show "family guy" I'm finding I sound more and more like Stewie. He is a character that has an overblown ego, so smart, so evil, so funny but no one who should, listens to him as HE's an infant. It's a tv show, so it's on topic.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:40:32 2008
User: TNmountainman
Message:Walter Cronkite is a pretty good ol' American. So was Dizzy Dean. And what can you say about Edwin Moses? Wow.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:41:48 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:User: birdhaus
Message:
and I'll asume that each topic sentence of each of your paragraphs was indicative of the content of the paragraph, that's just good basic writing. Should I assume otherwise?
Bird, haven't you heard the old saying? "When you *assume* you make an *ass* out of *u* and *me*.
Don't assume. Read what others write. You might be enlightened about something. You might also learn that respect gets you more understanding than arrogance does.
Teacher.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:48:12 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:User: CrappyCrappyCrappy
Message:
Snowguy said, "And, bird? There's nothing you could teach me."
While I see the validity of some of Snowguy's criticisms, this one smacks of broad overgeneralization.
You are, of course, correct, Crappy. It is exactly that: an broad overgeneralization. But in the sense that I meant it: her as "Teacher" of we "students" (until we "come around") rather than a fellow poster, I think that's pretty close to accurate.
I know some teachers very well. My wife teaches. I have also taught. One thing I learned is that being on a podium- spewing wisdom on the unworthy- is not a way to generate a receptive group of students. That does nothing but turn them off. You can try to "teach" but if the students lose respect, their attention is lost too.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:50:50 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:student snowguy, please sit down and listen now. Eyes up front.
Date: Fri Jan 18 14:57:52 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:User: birdhaus
Message:
again the topic is American Media. American Media. I'll accept Global Media, Media topics, Americans in general.
Is it really? I thought the topic was Fox News Most Trusted. It's nice to know that you "will accept" (various medias) that's so gracious of you, the arbiter of threads. (When was the election? I must have missed it.)
The fact is that this thread has gone the way of nearly all threads that last beyond 3 or 4 posts. It has taken off on tangents, and those tangents have been followed, and as they take shape, tangents have taken off from them. It's pretty hard to conceive of a thread of 75+ responses that remains strictly on-topic, except for "Bottles of Beer on the Wall."
Date: Fri Jan 18 15:01:42 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:"Among the most damning of its witnesses are convicted U.S. servicemen who coolly offer unnerving descriptions of the inhumane techniques they used to break down prisoners. The film's case — that their overzealous interrogations were either sanctioned by the Bush administration or caused by a failure to oversee poorly trained soldiers after creating a climate in which excess and cruelty were actively encouraged — is soberly laid out and methodically supported."
An excerpt of the review of "Taxi to the Dark Side" Incidently the words "dark side" have been taken directly from Cheney, the entire review is linked at the bottom.
snowguy, if you don't sit down and listen or stay on topic, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
Link: Taxi to the Dark Side
Date: Fri Jan 18 15:13:31 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Funny, teacher. I wouldn't even be in this classroom if you hadn't dragged me, specifically, into it.
Question, teacher. Do you really think anybody is reading and following your links anymore? I think you lost the class. They are throwing paper airplanes and passing notes back and forth. A couple of the girls are putting on makeup, and one boy is has an inkwell in one hand and a girl's pigtail in the other.
Of course, the four football players in the back row are sleeping. Boys in the front row are clowing and making obscene gestures while your back is turned. I am the least of your problems. Actually, the other kids are too. The problems with your class begin with the teacher.
*Better be get control!* Mr. Wilson, the principal is coming. I think he heard the hubbub. (Remember, you don't have tenure yet! You've only had this teacher job for a few days.)
Date: Fri Jan 18 15:33:43 2008
User: hotnurse
Message:This reminds me of "Point-counterpoint" from SNL many years ago with Jane Curtain and Dan Akroid(?) Very entertaining to say the lease. ;) KMc
Date: Fri Jan 18 15:41:31 2008
User: Pontenure
Message:Snowguy - I cannot believe you are spending this much time on birdhaus.
Birdhaus - Please try to get back on those meds. They will help. Trust us.
Date: Fri Jan 18 15:48:56 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:This is a fun way to demonstrate snowguy's overwhelming, compulsive need to get the last word in. watch.
Date: Fri Jan 18 17:07:53 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:"If you've been following all these stories over the past few years, there's not a lot here that you probably don't already know -- but it's still overwhelming to see the entire case laid out in such a methodical manner. In addition to the footage mentioned above, the film presents its case through interviews with guards and interrogators from Bagram, as well as former JAGs and other military officials. I'm sure they'll do it anyway,
but it'll be hard for the usual suspects to paint this as a partisan hit piece when probably 80% of the talking heads are military and/or Republicans.
Interspersed with their descriptions of the abuses are shots from the State of the Union in which Bush assures the audience, with a steely Clint Eastwood look in his eye, that the United States has illegally hunted down and murdered foreign nationals (I'm paraphrasing slightly, of course) -- and gets a standing ovation from both sides of the aisle. Or when Alberto Gonzales, testifying before Congress, is asked about confessions obtained under duress, and stares into the camera for a full thirty seconds, face twitching as he tries to think of a suitable lie. (At the moment, it seems a bit obscene to me that the thing that's ultimately going to bring Gonzales down is not his advocacy of torture, but rather the partisan firings of U.S. Attorneys.) Not to mention the footage of Dick Cheney explaining to an approving Tim Russert that the United States, like the rogue cop in a buddy flick, was going to have to throw the book away and play by its own rules for awhile."
I separated a sentence because it reminded me of what I said earlier, pay attention, even you may find yourself saying "birdhaus said that before, she's often right and an awesome writecheous biotch"
Link: tom tomorrow's review
Date: Fri Jan 18 17:11:22 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:tomorrow's last paragraph on the film "Taxi to the Dark Side"
"Watching this film, I had a strange sense of being "unstuck in time," to quote the late, great Kurt Vonnegut -- as though I were watching it twenty years from now, trying to understand the madness into which this country descended in the years immediately following 9/11. (The footage of Rumsfeld, in particular, was like watching contemporaneous footage of MacNamara justifying Vietnam.) If there's any justice in the world -- and one doesn't come away from this movie filled with overwhelming hope that there is -- Gibney will have settled once and for all the question of whether or not these abuses were the official policy of the United States government, sanctioned at the highest level."
Date: Fri Jan 18 17:12:57 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:dickcheney.dickcheney.dickcheney.dickcheney.dick.dick.dick.dick
Date: Fri Jan 18 18:23:48 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:Actually, bird, just then (after the snide Snowguy thingy) you had a nice couple presentations of your case. Solid information. No need to bring other posters into it- except for the "usual suspects" thing.
(Okay, the last little dickcheney bit was a bit... a bit... well, it was not exactly productive.) But, that's okay. I did appreciated the bulk of the way you made your case in the two informative posts.
And, the record of seven still stands, I am pleased to report.
I defer the last word to you.
Date: Fri Jan 18 19:39:44 2008
User: +Dandy+
Message:dickcheney.dickcheney.dickcheney.dickcheney.dick.dick.dick.dick
Date: Fri Jan 18 19:54:16 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:David Ljunggren writes for Reuters: "Canada's foreign ministry has put the United States and Israel on a watch list of countries where prisoners risk being tortured and also classifies some U.S. interrogation techniques as torture, according to a document obtained by Reuters on Thursday."
Date: Sat Jan 19 13:41:51 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:...an interview with the director of Taxi to the Dark Side. The reason I'm reviewing reviews of the film and posting them is because I don't think I have the stomach to watch it, I tend to literally get sick to my stomach when I see injustice and when I feel intense shame. Maybe some of you feel the same way. But hopefully, those of you that think the Bush Administration will have a positive legacy, those of you that think Bush can do no wrong, there should be 20% out there, will either read these posts or will make an attempt to educate yourselves and see the film...but I doubt it. I don't know why so many of you resist forming a new opinion of Bush. julia's defense is that Saddam did it. If you agree that since Saddam did it, then we can, then that belief is indicative of a myopic, dull-headed American.
"There are some documents that are being sought even now by the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee that have never come to light. Notably, allegedly, the document that gives the CIA authorization to waterboard people, for example. Some of the documents have come to light, for example, the torture memo, which we refer to in the film, [which] redefines torture [as] only that which intentionally leads to organ failure or death ... Well, that's a pretty broad definition.
So, for instance, pulling out your fingernails isn't torture under that definition, since it isn't going to kill you.
It doesn't lead to organ failure, and if you're not intentionally trying to cause organ failure, you can pull out someone's fingernails and that would be OK. The metaphor that I like the most is a virus. The Bush administration, notably the office of Dick Cheney, David Addington ... and the office of the White House general counsel Alberto Gonzales ... it's like they let a virus loose in the system and the virus mutates and migrates. You can't say that there's always an order that goes down and that's why these things happen.
One of the most telling things in the film is, there is clearly a memo that is sent by Donald Rumsfeld exclusively for the interrogation of Mohammed al-Katani, who was alleged to have been the 20th hijacker, and there's some very clear guidelines laid down that authorize new interrogation techniques that clearly would never be allowed under the Geneva Conventions. These, I would argue, as Alberto Mora argues, are clearly torture. But it's only authorized for one particular person. What happens is, the people at Bagram who are getting tremendous pressure to get good intelligence, they hear that their pals over at Guantánamo have these new guidelines and they're thinking, "Wow, we could really use those over here." And so they start using them. They're not authorized to [use them], but they start. I think it gives you some sense of how the process works: Tremendous pressure comes down from on high, and also the wink and the nod. The message is, the gloves are off."
Date: Sat Jan 19 14:37:15 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:Please pass the Tylenol, a beer and oh lets see the remote. This like so many other threads that folks in here use to try to "teach" another just go on for days and days and I have yet to see the dog catch its tail. I have a headache, I know it's my fault, I saw who was in here and still continued to torture myself and read on and on and on.....post after post after post.... Once, just once I would like to see one of these threads take on a topic in an actual DEBATE!!! As VP of my high school debate team, I dont remember anything like this. Finger pointing and name calling got you thrown out of a healthy debate.
I don't usually agree with Julia, but, her rant post did give me a chuckle. Truce?
Hugs to all
XOXO Lils
Date: Sat Jan 19 14:59:32 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:do you need to see the film? Lils? The difference between your high school debate team and these debates is that you can actually see the people present. Here, I have to put out...let's call them "prompt pinches" to bait conversation or prompt a person with a differing view to speak up. Unfortunately these prompt pinches come in the form of name calling and finger pointing. Without these pinch prompts, there is no incentive to post a retaliating response which usually, when handled maturely will pose some worthy counterpoints. Some people, I'm finding, can't counterpoint. But this find takes time. These debates are only interesting to the participants which need to have some very thick skin. I think I have thick skin and when someone calls me a name or seeks to scare me, I don't fall apart, but your compulsion to continue reading is interesting.
I'm only taking this one thread, so I can't say I'm monopolizing the discussion board.
Date: Sat Jan 19 22:14:29 2008
User: +Dandy+
Message:I don't see the need for the "prompt pinches" you describe. A discussion doesn't HAVE to degrade to get people to post. Actually, good discussion goes by the wayside when the nit-picking and name calling start. Just my +-opinion-+
Date: Wed Jan 23 11:17:09 2008
User: Songcutter
Message:Bush is behind all Fox News stories. Bush is immoral.
Debate over.
Date: Thu Jan 24 04:10:23 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:Bird wrote:
Unfortunately these prompt pinches come in the form of name calling and finger pointing. Without these pinch prompts, there is no incentive to post a retaliating response which usually, when handled maturely will pose some worthy counterpoints.
In order for things to be handled maturely, they need to start out maturely. No name calling or finger pointing is a really good way to do that. Why not just say... Lils I disagree with your post here is why.............
Trust me I take that much better than lils is a stupid left winged, liberal who doesnt know what side of the road she is on, she cant even back up what she says even though I have asked her to do so over and over again. TO this I say piss off to the other, I am more likely to try to help you understand my point of view even if it is different than yours.
XOXO Lils
Date: Thu Jan 24 12:38:21 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:I was listening to the radio this morning. I don't think I'm any different in my approach to the opposition than our very own presidential candidates. I'm not saying that it's a good and redeeming quality, but ugly language, pointing fingers, name calling is a common practise when discussion politics. Julia is just as ugly to me as I am to her, she just doesn't have the ammo I have. By the way, this is a good opportunity to plug this weeks Newsweek which is on Bush's poorly managed administration and what the next president is inheriting. Also an except from a new book on the Bush Administration outling all the failed policies, and why they failed. It's interesting, again, what a huge hand the office of VP played in this. What a costly 8 years it will be. Julia, songcutter, read this book excerpt if you want to stay informed. I'm sure it's on line.
Date: Thu Jan 24 13:06:32 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:I don't remember anything in debate class about focusing on the opponent; certainly nothing about attacking them. It was always to discuss your ideas and theirs, and your positions and theirs. You would look for reliable and suportable evidence or data that would support your own position and refute theirs.
Frankly, if I recall correctly, we were always warned to "not make it personal. In othger words, we are not Bush or Clinton or Gore, and we are not big oil or the environment. We are not trhe issues we argue. It's not about us.
Date: Thu Jan 24 13:21:16 2008
User: needles.to.say
Message:debate class isn't politics.
Date: Thu Jan 24 13:33:23 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:Snowy,
Thats what I remember too, although it has been a LONG time.
Bird said:
I don't think I'm any different in my approach to the opposition than our very own presidential candidates. I'm not saying that it's a good and redeeming quality, but ugly language, pointing fingers, name calling is a common practise when discussion politics.
Bird, Just becasue it is common practise does not make it right, intelligent or even ok to do. Why do you see yourself on the same platform as the persidental candidates and furthermore why do you degrade yourself in such a manner? I am sure you are a highly intelligent, strong and opinionated woman, but you make yourself look so bad. And while I am not a fan friend or whatever you want to call it of Julia, I do not remember her calling you names. If she did I am sorry and shame on her as well. Bird you are so much smarter than you have shown us here please please live up to your intelligence.
Lils
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