Subject: Fox News most trusted

Date: Thu Jan 24 13:38:41 2008
User: needles.to.say
Message:
yes, that is true. just because "they" do it, is no excuse here. people are touchy enough with all the misunderstandings.

Date: Thu Jan 24 13:49:01 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:
.highfive needles

XOXO Lils

Date: Thu Jan 24 19:04:05 2008
User: Katzby
Message:
Well said, lils! and you too, needles! I ahve stayed off this thread because it has had so many posts that are just brutal and vituperative, and I think that kind of thing at the very least clouds the issue under discussion. Let's see some of the basic debate rules here, what do you say?

Date: Thu Jan 24 20:39:46 2008
User: Songcutter
Message:
Should mud wrestling be allowed?

Date: Thu Jan 24 22:42:16 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:
Absolutely song, but of course in the correct thread.

XOXO Lils

Date: Fri Jan 25 12:20:52 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:
Thanks for you all's advise, I respect shedvl and needles and even songcutter and again, snowguy missed my post where I point out the differences between highschool debates and this DB. no surprise there. There are huge differences in highschool debate, one being passion. Since I am not assigned an opinion, I have worked, spent time and devoted a lot of my emotional energies toward choosing developing my own opinion. I have passion for my position. This is one difference. Another is that my opposition, mostly julia here, is opinionated but unable to articulate her position so I'm left with "lols, "that's rich" I'd vote for Bush a third time to spite yous" In other words, the one person who I've targeted as a Bush supporter is immature in counterpoint discussion. Hence the spiral downward. Also, I've decided in my own talks with proBushies that they are the way they are because they choose to be uninformed. julia, in my opinion, is uninformed. (Calling someone uninformed is not name-calling, just as calling someone conservative, or republican is not name-calling, it's calling a spade a spade. and we're not talking shovels here, snowguy.) So here's my dilemma: I've got a theory that Bush supporters are uninformed, I've got passion in this theory, I've got a subject, julia, who supports my theory but doesn't add to the discussion, IE. she's uninformed. So I've proven my theory but unable to penetrate julia's shortcomings by feeding her information so that she can form a new opinion. Sad but true. There it is.

Date: Fri Jan 25 13:16:41 2008
User: Snowguy
Message:
Just to clarify, bird, what I posted above was:

> User: Snowguy
Message:
I don't remember anything in debate class about focusing on the opponent; certainly nothing about attacking them. It was always to discuss your ideas and theirs, and your positions and theirs. You would look for reliable and suportable evidence or data that would support your own position and refute theirs.

>Frankly, if I recall correctly, we were always warned to "not make it personal. In othger words, we are not Bush or Clinton or Gore, and we are not big oil or the environment. We are not trhe issues we argue. It's not about us.<

I never mentioned high school. I took debate class in college. My point was, and a "Master Debater" should readily recognize, that any discussion about *issues and ideas* should be *about* the issues and ideas. That's all. And, there are numerous examples in this and other threads where you focused on the person instead of (or along with) the topic. You sometimes insulted them and dismissed them as less than you. That's all.

All that does is get in the way of rational discourse.

(And, don't drag me back in, unless you *really* want me in this thread.) As I wrote before, I don't have a dog in this fight.

Date: Fri Jan 25 13:28:38 2008
User: birdhaus
Message:
I prefer that you stay out of this discussion, snowguy.

Date: Fri Jan 25 13:52:49 2008
User: Songcutter
Message:
Lils,

You sure this isn't the mud wrestling thread?

Maybe it's the jello wrestling thread?

Date: Fri Jan 25 14:51:52 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:
Sorry Song,

This is still the FoxNews thread. You could start a jello/mud/honey/hot oil/........ thread and I would be sure to join you there.

XOXO Lils

Date: Fri Jan 25 15:13:08 2008
User: lilshedvl
Message:
I appreciate your respect Bird, thank you. You have proven to be intelligent, and you do have posts to back your intelligence up. It is clear that you have deep opinions on many issues, I wish I had as much passion. Just keep to the topic, forget the name calling, as should others and debate your heart out. You have the ability to be an extremely strong force. Passion is healthy, own it!!!!! But own it positively.......

.hug bird

XOXO Lils